Mastermind of the mayor of London's election campaign, James McGrath was dumped unceremoniously for saying immigrants who were unhappy living in a Tory capital should go home. He tells Shane Greer what comes next.

Overthrowing Ken Livingstone, an icon of the left who even Thatcher could not defeat, was sweet victory for James McGrath. His role as senior strategist for Boris Johnston was his most high profile campaign to date. But already he has moved on to deliver victory for a democratic candidate in the Maldives. Australia is the next target. But how did he get into political campaigning in the first place? It turns out he started young...

What was it that first got you involved in political campaigning?

It comes from wanting to change things or stop things or deliver something. My first campaign was when I was 15 and the principal of my school had been made redundant by the government. It was a political decision, so I organised a campaign through the students to keep him on, which was ridiculous when I think about it, very nerdy, but most students wanted to keep him.

It was very much like Degrassi High or Grange Street, or whatever the English equivalent is [Grange Hill]. It involved petitions, fliers, a protest down the main street carrying a coffin with a Death of Democracy sign, which was a bit over the top. It was a bunch of kids who were quite annoyed about what happened to their principal.

From there it just slowly evolved. When I went to university I was involved with the Liberal Club. I was at university for five years with my degree course, I ran in every student election and lost them all. Politics in Australia is very party political. I went to a reasonably left wing university and I'm a conservative, and at student level it's very rare for conservatives to win; we're unpopular, because we tell the truth.

Do you see political campaigning as one of those jobs where you learn by ‘doing' rather than through formal education?

The only way you can campaign is by ‘doing' rather than reading about it on a course. It's the classic ‘you learn from your mistakes'. You work out how language and certain push buttons influence people. You can't learn about that from a text book. It's from just going up to people and saying "Hi, I'm James, how are you doing, can I just talk to you about...".

What was the first big campaign you worked on, where you really felt you were in the nitty-gritty?

I suppose it depends on the outcome. Over here, it was the 2003 local elections because we [the Conservatives] managed the expectations so well. It was like: we're going to do this well and the media thought we were going to do far worse. And then we delivered, through [Eric] Pickles, quite a good result which actually saved Iain Duncan Smith's leadership because there were grumblings about him. That's when Crispin Blunt resigned on the day of the elections to try and force him to resign. The big one was Boris actually. That was the one where we went: we've taken out an icon of the left, someone that Thatcher hadn't been able to defeat, and so finally the Tories had taken him down. Boris, who I love to bits, had beaten Ken.

When did you first have an idea you'd be involved in the Boris campaign? How did that come about?

That came through George Osborne, because I was working for him on the general election and both Lynton [Crosby] and I were approached to help with the campaign. He had some really good people there like Katy Perrior and Jo Tanner [from iNHouse PR] and we just added some true Australianism to the campaign and helped it.

What do you mean by ‘Australianism'? What is the difference between the approach you and Lynton take to a British campaigner?

A liberal use of profanity, when I think about it, actually. The first thing we did on the Boris campaign was to bring in some alcohol, which was slightly ridiculous, but there was none...You work hard you play hard and the office had no alcohol which sounds really minor but...

It's an important factor...

You've got to have staff drinks, you know, so I brought in cocktail Fridays. And one of the guys who came in used to be a barman, so every Friday we would have a different cocktail.

You worked with Boris as a campaigner and you watched him during the race, and he's got that affable, brushing his hand though the hair kind of personality, but how did you manage to reconcile that with the need to stay on message?

Boris is passionate and he's got an amazing intellect so it wasn't that hard. I have this theory called GAF: Give a Fuck. He gave a fuck, he did. There's no way in which Boris Johnson would have become mayor of London if he didn't give a fuck about doing stuff for London and making it a better place to live. He may have been MP for Henley but he basically grew up in London and wanted to do things. This is a guy who rides his bike through the streets, this is a guy whose kids go to school there, whose wife works there, he's a Londoner. It wasn't that hard because he wanted to make life better. He's a classic liberal Conservative in that he wants there to be a mayor of London, and there's a contradiction, who makes living in London better for people but doesn't want, like Ken, to tell people what to do. You know, Livingstone was classic command and control socialist; "You lot should do da, da, da". I don't think Livingstone actually likes people. He likes politics and he likes campaigns, but he doesn't like people. Boris loves people, and that's what politics is about, it's about people. It's doing stuff for people, its giving a fuck.

Ken Livingstone is everywhere and keeps popping up, do you get a sense that he is gearing up to run again?

I do think he'll run again. Whether he's a Labour candidate or an Independent candidate he will definitely run again. Politicians sometimes need to realise they have a sell-by date. Ken did some good things for London, but that stopped about four years ago. He lost. He needs to just wander off into the sunset. I hope he runs again, and Boris will beat him again. Bring it on.

How important do you think the internet - Facebook, blogging etc - was in the campaign and how important do you think it will be in the re-election campaign?

I don't think technology has fully hit the UK yet. Look at what America did. It was relevant to the Boris campaign, but I don't think it was ever a deciding factor. We could have done so much more. Next time it will be so much more important, to answer your question.

Do you get the sense that, in terms of the blogosphere that there is momentum building on the left in the UK?

I don't think there is momentum on the left in the blogosphere in the UK, because I think the left here is quite dispirited. There will be momentum when David Cameron wins the election and then it'll be like, oh we need to do something. The UK's fascinating because the blogosphere is centre-right and it's not sycophantic centre-right, its honest, campaigning centre-right, so that's a good thing. Conservative Home, Iain Dale's Diary, and I suppose Order- Order [Guido Fawkes], which is more libertarian in a way, are streets ahead of the Left. The left, when they try to do it, are too party political, supporting the Labour Party rather than supporting the movement, if that makes sense. You left the Boris administrationdue to accusations of racism. When you look back on that time now, what are your feelings about it?

Political communication and campaigning, it's not about what you say, it's what people hear. What I am alleged to have said is not what I actually said and it was in my view a... I wanted to do something to help the black and minority youth in London, because that was a big issue for us on the campaign in terms of knife crime and I'm alleged to have said something that I didn't say, and it was just unfortunate that people used it to play politics. I mean, that's life, but you move on from that. But it's a classic; it's not what people say it's what you hear.

So you left the administration and the next thing we hear is that you're in the Maldives. How doesthat come about?

It's not like you're dealing with a fully functioning democracy, it's a dictatorship, so how did you get involved with that? One of the very good things about John Major, who is very under-rated, is that under his government he set up something called the Westminster Foundation for Democracy. What it means is that political activists from all political parties voluntarily go and help with campaigns or political parties overseas in emerging democracies. And I went to the Maldives, initially for about a week, to help do an audit of the Maldivian Democratic Party's [MDP] campaign, and it just moved on from a week to four months staying out there. I ran a campaign for a former political prisoner, jailed at least 13 times, who had been tortured, and helped him defeat a dictator who had been in power for 30 years.

A lot of campaigners go and work in emerging democracies, and there's certainly a market for those skills. But there's also a danger side. You ended up having body guards.

It helped me with the campaign in a way because nearly everyone in the MDP had been in jail or had fled into exile, or had lost businesses or something like that, and suddenly their campaign manager was being picked upon by the government. I was the only foreigner, the only white person, on the campaign so it was like: "They're picking on you also," so it sort of helped with that.

The threat of death was good for campaign morale...

Yeah,"You're one of us now" [makes scared noise]. You sort of get used to it, and I never took it really seriously, and the Maldives is such a... they're so just relaxed and friendly. They've got such a coffee culture which makes sense because everyone stays out late at night, and they don't drink alcohol, so they drink coffee and things like that. I did not feel that I was being threatened.

If you look at the US the campaigns industry is phenomenally large, but in the UK do you get the sense that there's more of a campaign industry growing here?

Because of restrictions on advertising here, there's never going to be a huge industry and it'll always be an adjunct to public affairs and public relations firms, so you'll never get the United States industry here.

Do you think the restrictions are wrong?

Totally. I think it's a restriction on freedom of speech, I think it's outrageous. How dare the government, whoever it is, tell political parties; you can't buy broadcast communication. You can do billboards, you can do the internet but you can't use radio or TV. That sounds like something from the 19th century.

Do you think if that were to change, then we would move towards there being more money?

Definitely, definitely. I think it's a good thing, you need freedom of speech and that's what people in my industry do; they promote freedom of speech, admittedly through some succinct 15- second ads sometimes, but it is freedom of speech. That's what it's all about.

How much do you think we can learn from the Obama campaign? Do you think it's overblown?

A little bit. He refined and defined it. He is a fantastic politician. Politicians fall into two categories when they win; those who manage and those who lead. I fear he's going to be a manager rather than a leader; he needs to make decisions now. His campaign was just great; so on-message and so well organised and it set the standard in a way.

Finally, what advice would you give to someone who wants to get in to campaigning in the UK and wants to become, essentially, what you are now? What would you say to that?

They need to give a fuck. There's no point doing it, it's not like: "I want to become an accountant or a dentist." If you believe in an issue you do it and you start off, you start off delivering leaflets and you're not going to be Prime Minister by the time you're 25. A lot of people in this industry think they will be, but you've got to believe in something and once you've got that you just go out there and do it. And, I said before, you learn from your mistakes, but there are no mistakes because you're still out there, that's the way you do it.

What's next for James McGrath?

James is going to spend the next 18 months in Australia... I'll also be working to defeat the Labour government John Howard lost 14 months ago and Malcolm Turnbull's the new leader of the Liberal Party. He started from a very normal background, he's been a very successful business person and he wants to lead Australia in a new direction. I want to help him do it and then I might come back here, we'll see what happens.

Who knows, maybe the Boris re-election?

Maybe actually, that would be nice actually especially if Ken runs again. No worries.

Good to stick it to him?

Totally.

James McGrath is deputy director of Australia's Liberal Party