The Leveson Inquiry will resume tomorrow at 10am to hear from David Cameron.
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Summary of today's evidence
Salmond was supportive of the BSkyB bid in terms of job creation and investment for Scotland. He said he agreed to try and convince the relevant secretary of state over the economics of the BSkyB bid for Scotland but stops short Of saying there was a deal with Murdoch.
Salmond has never had his phone hacked however he believes that his bank account was hacked into by the Observer, who have since issued a statement claiming.
Compared to Blair, Brown and Cameron, Salmond only had five meetings in five years with Rupert Murdoch.
Salmond noted that Murdoch was warming to the idea of Scottish independence citing Murdoch’s Scottish ancestry, which was noted by Gordon Brown in his evidence to the inquiry. Salmond had also spoken to Murdoch about receiving backing for Scottish independence.
Whilst other politicians have slammed the fact that PCC membership is voluntary, Salmon has said the people equally have the right not to observe the code.
Clegg has called for a statutory register of lobbyists and a clearer definition of the public interest.
Clegg endorsed Jeremy Hunt and received assurances on suitability to handle the bid by Gus O’Donnell. He also received assurances from David Cameron over Andy Coulson’s appointment.
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Alex Salmond has finished giving evidence.
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AS points out that the Irish system includes an independent ombudsman who investigate's the behaviour of newspapers.
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AS stresses that it is impossible to implement a division between fact and comment and repeats an earlier admission that people should be free to express themselves.
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AS says a move towards transparency is a good thing for politicians.
He says he is surprised by how little attention has been paid to the Irish press. Leveson assures AS that they have been looking very carefully at the Irish model.
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AS: In terms of redress, that should be a matter of criminal law to enforce that, but for behaviour that is not criminal but wrong then redress has to apply to all.
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AS: Statutory code cannot be enforced until criminal law is enforced/enforceable
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AS said he felt angry about lack of information being given to Scottish authorities.
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MPs voted 290 to 252 against the Labour motion to investigate Jeremy Hunt over his handling of the BSkyB bid.
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AS denies leaking a date on a referendum on Scottish independence to the Scottish Sun.
AS argues that you can't leak a possible date to which Jay disagrees.
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AS denies that there was an implied deal and a suggestion of "cosiness" between himself and News Corp.
AS stresses that he dealt with people in a "cordial manner".
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A vote on an investigation into Jeremy Hunt is due in 15 minutes.
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Jay quizzes on whether Rupert Murdoch was warming up to the idea of Scottish independence after the SNP won the election in 2011. AS says that if he was canvassing he would’ve been in the “don’t know” camp.
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AS: SNP has a long standing policy on reducing corporation tax as a means of attracting investment.
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MPs are now voting on whether or not Jeremy Hunt should be investigated over his handling of the BSkyB bid. Liberal Democrats are expected to abstain.
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Rupert Murdoch had a “lively interest in Scottish independence”.
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AS said he thought the bid would be referred to the competition committee.
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Guardian’s Lisa O’Carroll (@lisaocarroll) tweets: Salmond meets James murdoch Jan, says he is in favour of BSkyB bid. Suns coverage of SNP begins to change in February
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AS repeats that he was prepared to make the case that jobs and investment was a valid factor in considering the bid, contradicting Fred Michel's emails that he would help "smooth the way for the process".
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AS met Michel for the first time at the meeting with Rupert Murdoch and described him as “very able in terms of what his job is”.
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AS said that he agreed to try and convince Hunt over the economic benefits of the BSkyB takeover for Scotland.
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AS acknowledged that the news coverage of Scotland was not huge. He said he was keen on having First Minister debates as they had in the Prime Ministerial debates in 2010.
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The Guardian have published their exchange of letters with AS over the hacking of his bank account. The letters can be read here.
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AS stresses that his responsibilities were with job creation and not with plurality.
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Guardian News and Media statement today:
"Mr Salmond first raised the matter of an alleged unauthorised access of his bank account with the Observer's editor last year. The allegation was that a journalist working for the Observer had accessed his bank details in 1999. As we explained to him last year, on the basis of the information he had given us, we have been unable to find any evidence to substantiate his allegation. As our response to him at the time made clear, we take this allegation very seriously and if he is able to provide us with any more information we will investigate further."
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AS said he never asked the Murdochs for support of their papers, pointing out that The Times were very much against Scottish independence.
He did however spoke to Murdoch about backing from the Scottish Sun, and added that he did not believe his offer of support over BSkyB would win him the support of News International titles.
AS was simply told to "speak to the editors".
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The Observer have released a statement in relation to AS's claim that his bank account was hacked into by an Observer journalist in 1999:
"We have been unable to find any evidence to substantiate his allegation.
"We take this allegation very seriously and if he's able to provide us with any more information we'll investigate further."
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Scottish independence was discussed on two occasions between Rupert Murdoch and AS.
AS said independence had been discussed with James Murdoch, but the focus of the meeting was very much on BSkyB’s plans for Scotland.
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AS said he never discussed corporation tax issues with James Murdoch. His meeting was the impact on the Scottish economy as a result of the bid and European digital platform.
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Jay asks AS if he was supportive of the BSkyB bid. AS says he never had the opportunity to discuss the bid with Cable and Hunt, but wanted to stress that job creation was the main criteria.
AS said he wanted to hear in more detail the digital platform investment and the consequences for Scotland, and said he would have been happy to speak to the relevant secretary of state to consider the matter of jobs in Scotland when dealing with the bid.
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Break
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AS points out that BSkyB is a huge employer in Scotland (at least 6,000 jobs).
He adds that some 36% of BSkyB’s total employment is in Scotland and is in top 10 of private employers.
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AS spoke of Murdoch's Scottish heritage and invited him to see a performance of Black Watch, which Murdoch said he didn't go to in the end.
AS than recommends it to Jay.
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AS and Murdoch had five meetings in five years. AS adds that it wasn't in the same league as Blair, Brown and Cameron.
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Salmond tells the inquiry that he doesn’t have “an anti-English bone” in his body in relation to a complaint about an article in Press and Journal.
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AS says that he thinks people have the right to be offensive.
AS adds that newspapers do not have a "watertight argument" if they defend inaccuracies because they are made in comment pieces.
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An Observer spokeswoman said she was not yet in a position to make a comment with regards to AS’s claim that his bank account had been hacked into.
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Salmond now discussing complaint from Scottish Council Jewish Council about offensive comments posted on news websites
Salmond said he told the newspapers that they have the responsibility to monitor comments posted on their websites and both accepted their responsibility.
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The inquiry now turn their attention to the Homecoming initiative, which AS explains was to celebrate anniversary of Robert Burns and was a helpful move in Scottish tourism in light of the financial crash.
AS said he wanted to ensure that it had national coverage across the media with the aim of bringing people with Scottish ancestry to come back.
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Look at interaction with the BBC Trust in relation to the future of a Gaelic station BBC Alba. AS commends Jay on his Gaelic pronounciation.
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The inquiry now turn to media campaigns supported by the government but notably "not controversial" with a "lack of political dimension".
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AS agrees that editors/proprietors make it clear to him which of his policies they dislike and acknowledges that this is fine in a democratic society. However, he adds it has never been the case that an editor or proprietor has threatened to withdraw support.
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Nick Clegg's witness atatement is now available to read here.
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AS: All politicians try to influence newspapers to influence newspapers to treat their party or cause more favourably. That’s not always the reason for meeting editors.
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AS first met Rebekah Brooks (nee Wade) in a “very unsuccessful meeting” in 2007.
He later met her in 2008 after the Glasgow by-election and wanted to see if there was a shift in opinion, but didn’t sense there was any.
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The Inquiry now turns to AS's meetings with media proprietors.
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AS: Unwise to consign people to being a lost cause because times change.
This is in relation that newspapers are "lost causes".
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AS asked if he felt the Scottish Sun was a “floating voter” and if he felt the need to “court” them.
AS says that no mainstream paper support Scottish independence and adds that it something that he has to change.
"you need to avoid the media hunting as a pack with a universally hostile opinion."
He also admits that he tried to get the Daily Telegraph to take a positive view of the SNP and Scottish independence.
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It’s a good idea not to have entire press corps hunting as a pack against you if you achieve an element of diversity (with one tab for and another against) then that’s a good position.
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Jay asked if the press coverage had an impact on votes.
AS pointed out that Scotland had a proportional system. He adds that it’s not a necessary or sufficient condition as they still won in 2007 without a major tabloid’s backing.
He says the support in an election campaign is not as significant as people believe
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The Inquiry now turn to political issues, which included a front page from the Scottish Sun who was anti-SNP and then pro-SNP in 2011.
Jay cites the Daily Record's Sunday title (The Sunday Mail), which was anti-SNP and pro-Labour in 2011
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AS: "I believe there's a substantial case illegality was rife across many newspaper titles and very little effort was made to uphold the criminal law."
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AS says he has no evidence that his own phone has been hacked as he has not been contacted by Strathclyde Police.
He says he believes his bank account was accessed by the Observer in 1999 as he was informed by a former Observer journalist of the contents of his bank account, which included toys for his nieces at a place called “Fun and Games”.
The journalist said they believed “Fun and Games” was more than a conventional toy shop, and AS adds that there was disappointment when it wasn’t.
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A number of Scottish people have been informed by Strathclyde police that they may have been victims of illegality.
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Jay asks if there are any differences in cultural practices in the Scottish press.
AS says there is no evidence in the regional press (Scottish or regional) have been engaged in activities such as phone hacking.
"Until recently may have considered this to be a Fleet Street issue. More recently we have to accept there are significant Scottish examples of possible criminality,"
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It has been pointed out that regulation of the press is a devolved matter. The PCC code applies to Scotland and the Scottish press voluntarily belong to it.
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AS jokes at Leveson's use of the term "English Parliament", prompting laughter from the court and causing Leveson to put his head in his hands.
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Jay asked if he is looking to consider with a Scottish specific solution as a result of the Inquiry or a UK-wide one.
AS says it depends on the outcome of the inquiry and if it comes up with a proposition that has public support. In which case the Scottish Parliament are likely to accept it.
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MPs are now debating on the future of Jeremy Hunt and are voting on whether or not the culture secretary should be investigated over his handling of the BSkyB bid.
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AS: People have the right to observe (the PCC code), but people have the right not to observe it.
AS adds that the separation of news and comment is not desirable or practical
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AS: Newspapers have the right to pursue their individual opinions or prejudices
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Salmond said that some relationships (between media and politicians) could be constructive and others could be tense.
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Alex Salmond has been sworn in and has given his name as Alexander Elliot Anderson Salmond.
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Lunch time round up
Nick Clegg has said that his contact with the media was more intense when he was in opposition than when he was in government.
Clegg knew Fred Michel on a social level for at least a decade before he ventured into British politics. They had fewer meetings after the 2010 General Election but never discussed the bid.
Clegg is calling for a statutory register of lobbyists, which is being worked on by Mark Harper MP.
When asked if he had an opinion on the bid, Clegg said he was “open-minded but sceptical” over the BSkyB bid.
Clegg said that he was “quizzical” about the timing of the bid and was given an answer that was “not hugely revealing” when he quizzed Murdoch about the bid’s timing.
Clegg told his Liberal Democrat colleagues to keep quiet on the BSkyB bid so that Vince Cable could do his job when he had responsibility for the bid.
Gus O'Donnell gave his assurances to Clegg on Jeremy Hunt’s suitability to handle the bid and didn’t know who had the final word on Hunt’s appointment.
Vince Cable said in his evidence that he received “veiled threats” from Fred Michel. Clegg said he wasn't made aware of this.
Clegg is calling for a clearer definition of the “public interest”.
When quizzed on the appointment of Andy Coulson, Clegg said that he and Huhne opposed it, but later conceded that it wasn't in his place to tell Cameron who to appoint.
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Clegg said his party was very outspoken on the accountability of the press and the issue was “brushed under the carpet by Labour and the Conservatives”
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Clegg: the Milly Dowler thing transformed everything because it inflamed quite rightly public anger.
"I cannot believe that almost amoral behaviour towards helpless people other than in the context of newsroom cultures that were totally beyond control."
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Clegg said he was clear in his mind when it was obvious that phone hacking needed to be looked into by an inquiry that was judge-led with "real teeth" and a broad remit.
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May 2010, Clegg had conversation with Cameron about the appointment of Andy Coulson. The conversation was initiated by Clegg. Clegg cites he and Chris Huhne were highly critical of Coulson’s appointment.
Clegg asked Cameron if it was the right thing to do and later conceded that it wasn't in his place to tell Cameron who to appoint.
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Clegg: This is a good opportunity for politicians to get off their knees, they don’t need to pander to every whim got up by the press. It’s great the press do that that but it’s really for the politicians to stand up for themselves.
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Clegg says he has been "lucky enough to lead a party that has never been in anyone's pocket and is proud to be sceptical of vested interests."
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Clegg: "If we see a chilling effect on freedom of the press we would lose something very precious".
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Clegg: This cannot be the subject of endless political argy bargy, and the less room you give in reccomendations for politicians to give endless mischief about it the better.
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Clegg: I’ve not heard a persuasive case that you can have independent regulation with teeth with everyone participating without there being ‘pick and choose’ participation.
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Clegg says there may need to be statutory regulation to defend the regulatory body itself.
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Clegg: Whatever body replaces the PCC, they cannot be gift of government or run by politicians directly. They must be independent and self-standing.
Clegg calls a statutory backstop and cites Ofcom and ASA as example models
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Clegg is calling for there to be a clearer definition of the public interest. The PCC code carries a public interest test which includes exposing crime, protecting health and safety and to prevent the public from being mislead.
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Clegg agrees that the PCC needs reform, its replacement needs to be more robust and also needs to assure that accountability is properly held to account when there are intrusions in privacy and so on.
At the same time it needs to enshrine press freedoms without fear or impediment.
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Jay now quizzes Clegg on Cable’s evidence in which “veiled threats” by Fred Michel were made to him. Clegg says he has no recollection of being informed by Cable about this.
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Clegg says he finds it odd that a newspaper group can organically grow its market share with no intervention from competition regulators.
He adds that “the rules seem to be eccentrically designed for a rapidly moving section such as the media.”
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The Guardian liveblog notes that this is the first time that the deputy prime minister has endorsed Hunt since he gave evidence to the inquiry.
Clegg briefly referred to the vote by MPs on an investigation over Hunt's handling of the bid
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Clegg calls for the “plurality test” to be redefined.
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Clegg: "I think there’s a general tenency at the moment to increasingly strip politicians of decision-making authority on a range of issues."
He says "The idea you can make everything bloodless and technocratic if you remove politicians is a false promise, Mr Clegg says. The danger would be that decisions are made by people who are not accountable to anyone".
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I think I was told that there were some comments on the public record from Hunt, I didn’t ask to receive those comments but was assured they weren’t particularly serious.
Jay asks if his view stays the same now. Clegg says yes because all that was learnt subsequently confirmed Hunt's account.
He adds that the information that emerged from the inquiry "didn't actually affect the content of what was known at the time,"
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Clegg said he had discussions with Gus O’Donnell (now Lord) about transferring responsibility for the bid from Cable to Hunt.
He says he remembers asking O’Donnell for assurances that the bid would be dealt with objectively by DCMS.
Clegg says he didn't know who had the final say on Jeremy Hunt's appointment. George Osborne confirmed in his evidence that Jonathan Heywoon recommended giving the bid to Jeremy Hunt as it was "logical".
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Clegg said his political instinct was to protect Cable and not eject him from office in relation to the Telegraph sting.
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Michel tried to organise a meeting with Clegg’s press spokesperson Lena Pietsch.
Clegg said he was not aware of these texts.
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Clegg: Implausible that anyone should know what my reactions are in a Financial Times article. Extract below from the Financial Times. The article was published in March 2011:
Opponents of News Corp's bid for British Sky Broadcasting have taken their fight to the corridors of power with a direct lobbying effort principally aimed at Liberal Democrat MPs and peers.
The alliance of newspaper owners and BT have sent a letter to politicians of all parties challenging the ideas underpinning a remedy accepted by Jeremy Hunt, the culture secretary, to answer regulators' concerns over the concentration of news provision represented by the proposed 700p-a-share bid.
In its letter to MPs and peers, the group says that the remedy if fatally flawed. If accepted, it would see Sky News spun off as a freestanding, listed company funded by a 10-year contract with BSkyB, with News Corp as a 39.1% shareholder.
People advising the group say that while the lobbying campaign does not mean they have abandoned hope of a legal challenge to Mr Hunt if he allows the merger following a 15-day consultation, it is a stronger option at present.
"Politics can be a quicker and more decisive path than the law," a spokesman for the alliance said on Sunday.
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Clegg: Johnny Oates' email reflects my own view that everyone should pipe down (about bid)... and just let Cable get on with it
Johnny Oates is Chief of Staff to Nick Clegg.
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Clegg says that he wanted to ensure Vince Cable was "insulated" from political influence when he was given the responsiblity of overseeing the bid.
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Gordon Brown told Clegg "You do realise that this is all about Murdoch, the Murdochs want the Conservatives in government".
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Clegg said he was “quizzical” about the timing of the bid after News Corp announced the bid after the general election. Clegg was aware that News International titles were supportive of the Conservatives and Clegg even asked Murdoch about the timing of the bid.
Clegg adds that Murdoch’s answer to his question was “not hugely revealing”.
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Norman Lamb told Clegg that it would be good for Lib Dems to be “open to the bid” and would receive good treatment from the press.
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Jay asks if Clegg had a personal view on the BSkyB bid. Clegg said he was “open-minded but sceptical”
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The Inquiry is back and now turns to Clegg’s views on the BSkyB bid. Clegg said he had two views: the first was the restlessness of News International in “shaking things up”. That view was balanced by the concerns of “too much power concentrated in too few people”.
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Click here for a brief biography of Mark Harper MP from the Conservative Party website. Harper is the Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform and is working with Nick Clegg on a statutory register of lobbyists.
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Break
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Clegg tells the Inquiry that Mark Harper is planning on publishing his thoughts on the statutory register to the consultation whilst the inquiry is ongoing.
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Jay now quizzes Clegg on the issue of a statutory register of lobbyists. This is being dealt with by Mark Harper MP.
Clegg says the register is to address the status of commercial lobbyists. He says it’s an issue because it’s always obvious who they are speaking on behalf of and felt as a matter of principle that this information is publicly known.
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The inquiry now address the issue of lobbying, specifically media lobbying.
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Jay now turns to the safeguards that exist within the Lib Dem party to avoid pressure from outside organisations.
We just have an “open, deliberative, democratic process of policy”.
He described it as “frustratingly painstaking” but adds that it’s a “wonderful inoculation from undue influence on party policy”.
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Clegg agrees with Leveson and says that you have to "wear another hat" when you're in government and change from a partisan objective to taking into account the wider general public.
Partisan political operations are different to those you adopt in government.
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Leveson says that it has been suggested that there’s a difference between approach to journalists adopted by Lab our post-1992 until 1997 which they then took into government.
Leveson says he is interested in whether Clegg thinks there should be a slightly different relationship in the way you try to tell your story in opposition to the way in which you do in government.
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Clegg said he and Michel had little social contact after the general election and had dinner in September 2010, but Clegg says that they never discussed the BSkyB bid
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Fred Michel met many years ago before entering British Politics. They first met at least a decade ago when FM was working at a centre left think tank and their children go to the same school in South-West London.
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The inquiry notes that there were fewer meetings between Clegg and the media after the phone-hacking scandal, but there was an outburst of meetings over electoral reform.
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Clegg says that if he meets a media proprietor, he will relay it onto officials if something is raised that touches on official business.
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Rebekah Brooks, her husband and four other defendants have been bailed to appear at Southwark Crown Court on 22 June.
The hearing took place at Westminster Magistrates Court today.
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Clegg attended a dinner held by Rupert Murdoch. He joked that he sat at the end of the table where the children sat and was more of an observer than a participant.
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Jay now turns his attention to Clegg’s contact with Rebekah Brooks and James Murdoch. Jay asks if Murdoch asked him about Ofcom.
Clegg said that he was keen to explain who he was and his ambitions for the party as he had just been elected leader at the time of meetings.
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Clegg had a number of conversations with media who were hostile to BSB bid. He adds that they didn’t act on it but made it clear that this was a process being dealt with “in a box”.
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Many of Clegg's contact with media was more formal when he was in government.
Clegg: I do not remember the content of a huge number of interactions
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Clegg said that the regularity of contact with the media was much more intense in opposition than it is in government, partly because of the physical location.
He explains: “In opposition you’re in Westminster and in direct contact with journalists. Then you move into government in Whitehall and you’re considerably cut off.
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The inquiry now turns to Clegg's personal engagements with media proprietors.
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"There was an appetite for something different, and so it was not with hindsight that surprising when an alternative was put forward people responded to that,"
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Revelation of Leveson today: Nick Clegg wears glasses.
@MattRedmore: I've never seen Clegg wear glasses before
@BBCNormanS: Clegg wearing glasses to read material at Leveson ???? First time avec les Specs ????
@rblanford: Nick Clegg puts on glasses, turns into Alastair Campbell. OMG they're the same person!
@BernardMcEldon: Oh first time I have seen Cleggy wearing specs. Mind you he is always making a spectacle of himself!
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Clegg: I was fairly pragmatic. From the public’s point of view many weren’t aware of who I was and what Lib Dems were putting across in the general election.
I was saying different stuff to Cameron and Brown and there was anappetite for something different because weary of sitting government and not so impressed by the other.
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Jay now his attention to the general elections the TV debates which saw a “spike” in Clegg's poll ratings
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Clegg: If you're not clear about what the public interest is then that creates potential for a lot of misunderstandings
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Looks like Leveson agrees with Nick as he raises the difficulty in defining the public interest in relation to investigative journalism and corporate governance, and adds that some people have different definitions of the public interest.
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Clegg: If a journalis feels they need to do things which are intrusive and unusual to uncover things in the public interest, then I don’t think we should squeamish about that.I think the means in which they do that should be understood by those who oversee their work in a newsroom.
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Clegg: PCC is populated by very good people who do it diligently but it’s a toothless operation
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On press-politician relationships, Clegg says that there should be some scepticism on both sides. He says that mutual interests will always exist but we should avoid dependency and "political clientelism".
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Clegg: Relationships (between parties and press) should be laced with healthy degree of scepticism, and a certain amount of distance.
That scepticism should happen with any vested interests in society like trade unions.
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Jay turns his to Clegg’s witness statement on relationships between media and political parties. Clegg says that one needs to get the balance right.
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Clegg: "I can't see any means by which you'd seek to legislate, regulate to distinguish between fact, opinion and comment."
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Clegg: The more the press abides by its own code, the better, but I’m wary of going down a slippery slope in trying to intrude from outside.
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Nick Clegg has been sworn in.
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Clegg is likely to make it back in time for PMQs and avoid an awkward front bench moment with David Cameron. MPs will vote on whether or not to have Jeremy Hunt investigated over his handling of the BSkyB bid, with the Liberal Democrats expected to abstain.
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Looks like there’s going to be a Twitter overload with Leveson, PMQs, a vote on Jeremy Hunt in the Commons and Rebekah Brooks’ appearance at Westminster Magistrates Court.
Comments
Anthony / June 20 2012 11:14pm
Anyone want to speculate. Why is this ongoing and contradictory?