If you’re someone who’s engaged in training people how to be more effective on television, as I am, you’re always on the lookout for examples of people who’ve really dropped the ball when the cameras are rolling. Step forward Zac Goldsmith MP.
In case you missed Zac’s moment of glory, here it is:
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Whatever way you cut it, Zac took what was a tremendous opportunity to confront the accusations (and insinuations) thrown at him and wasted it. And what makes it even worse is that, with the right approach, he could have left the Channel 4 News studio confident in the knowledge that he had taken the wind out of the sails of the investigation against him. So, what went wrong and what should he have done?
What went wrong:
- Zac failed to recognise that his status as an MP automatically raises questions about his honesty and trustworthiness (we live in the post-expenses age). Accordingly, the onus was on him to prove his innocence rather than on Channel 4 to prove his guilt.
- Incredibly, it wasn’t until 6 minutes and 20 seconds into the interview that Zac finally addressed the questions being put to him. As a result, the audience simply saw ‘another politician’ trying to avoid the questions being put to him. In summary, Zac looked evasive.
- At 6 minutes and 30 seconds Zac responds to the figures put to him by Jon Snow by saying: "The figures you’ve used here, I assume they are correct." Sorry, he assumes they’re correct!? If you want to dominate in a televised discussion like this you need to be in complete command of the facts.
- When it came to the posters, Zac was in an unenviable position. By any objective measure, and certainly to the ordinary voter, a poster which has the face of the parliamentary candidate, their name and a command to vote for their party could not be said to be a local election poster. Yes, when it comes to accounting for the expense of those posters every other campaign uses the same trick, but that’s exactly what the public will see it as, a trick.
- As for the jackets, this should have been a home run for Zac. The facts were clearly on his side, as they would be for the many politicians from various party’s who have engaged in similar activity. However, the jackets were brought up 8 minutes in, and Zac spent 44 seconds blustering rather than getting straight to the killer point (which he didn’t raise until 8 minutes and 44 seconds).
There are many other minor errors which could be highlighted, but the points above represent the major tactical errors Zac made during what could have been a successful interview.
What should he have done:
- Assuming what Zac says about Channel 4’s failure to allow him to appear is true, he was absolutely right to lead with that and ask for an apology. As mentioned above, because he’s an MP the audience will already assume he’s in the wrong. However, his claims against Channel 4 (if valid) offered the opportunity to raise doubts about the integrity of Channel 4 News and Jon Snow. If you can weaken your opponent in the eyes of the audience, then you absolutely should do so and do it as soon as possible. But remember, truth has to be on your side.
- That said, Zac spent far too long trying to do this. He should have made his points, reading from the papers in front of him (citing times/dates) to add authority to his claims, promised to publish everything online after the show for viewers to check for themselves and then actively welcomed the opportunity to address Channel 4’s accusations and insinuations head-on. All told, Zac should not have spent any more than a minute doing this.
- As Abraham Lincoln said: "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." Zac should have spent much more time sharpening his axe. Preparation is the key to success in television interviews. In Zac’s case he should have made a point of knowing the details of his own claims, his opponent’s claims and the claims of some other MPs (for context).
- On television you need to pick your fights, and the poster discussion was not one that Zac was going to win. He should have dealt with it as quickly as possible, citing examples of some fellow MPs and then made clear that he’s happy submit himself to the judgement of the Electoral Commission. Sometimes you’re going to lose, and when that happens you need to limit the damage inflicted by that loss.
- When it came to the jackets, Zac should have seized the opportunity to land some seriously heavy hits on Channel 4. Rather than spend time blustering, he should have got straight down to business and made clear that, yes, the jackets were bought for the 23 day period, but they were also bought for the local elections, the European elections, the GLA elections and the next parliamentary election, and that it simply wouldn’t make sense to attribute the whole cost to his campaign and for subsequent campaigns to declare no cost whilst enjoying the full benefit. The stickers were specific to the 23 day period yes, but the jackets were not. Simples. The argument sells itself, but by the time Zac got round to making it, he’d already lost the audience.
In politics, one moment can destroy a career, and whilst Zac’s moment on Channel 4 won’t destroy his, it will certainly stay with him for as long as he remains active in politics.
Still, in fairness to Zac, at least he wasn’t as bad Peter Ward of the British Dental Association:
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Comments
Andy Wasley / July 19 2010 12:56pm
Ha! Glad that BDA clip came in handy. Excellent blog post, Shane.
James Graham / July 19 2010 1:29pm
"Yes, when it comes to accounting for the expense of those posters every other campaign uses the same trick"
I've ran two general election campaigns and several local elections and byelections and I've never used that "trick" in my life. Yes, I've apportioned out posters that weren't used and allocated generic posters to different campaigns. But I've never allocated "Fred Bloggs" posters to a campaign that wasn't for the election of Fred Bloggs, or even the proportion of the poster that doesn't mention Fred Bloggs.
On what basis do you make this claim?
trevors den / July 19 2010 1:43pm
trouble is that although he is an MP he is not a politician.
he is though very 'green' and what channel 4 news cannot stand is someone who is green and a tory as well.
Peter Botting / July 19 2010 1:44pm
Peter Ward is truly brilliant! What's with the hands? Thanks for that Shane! WIill be adding him to my DVD of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly!!
Tory Bear / July 19 2010 1:56pm
LA LA LA LA LA LA
blackwatertown / July 19 2010 1:58pm
Not the finest hour for either of them, though I found my sympathy unexpectedly leaning towards Zac. You're right though, he should have wrapped it up sooner.
The BDA's Peter Ward however, was just shocking.
Hugh Janus / July 19 2010 2:10pm
I am normally an admirer of Jon Snow, but in this case he completely lost control of the interview through a mixture of inept questioning and bad temper. This was an abject lesson in how not to do it.
Victor Southern / July 19 2010 2:31pm
I am afraid that Zac Goldsmith has shown himself to neither a good politician nor very bright.
Werewolf1 / July 19 2010 2:31pm
Errr, so how come I, and many others, thought Zac absolutely creamed Snow in that interview PRECISELY because he stuck to his first point so doggedly and refused to be pushed around? It was different, it was bold, and he got to call Snow a charlatan live on air and had him stumbling around and muttering stuff about OFCOM.
I thought Zac did well - and if the investigation clears him, then he'll have Snow bang-to-rights. Now THAT will be interesting TV.
Chris Gaynor / July 19 2010 2:50pm
Actually, I think this was Zac Goldsmith's moment of glory against Jon Snow..Snow could have easily answered his question directly about C4's integrity with their request to arrange an interview, but for at least six or seven minutes it's wasted....
This should have lasted no more than five minutes...but for the stubbornness of both Snow and Goldsmith. In my opinion, it was not a great day for TV journalism....
adrian drummond / July 19 2010 3:10pm
Absolute rubbish.
Having spent half my life working in television news it was refreshing to see someone take on Ch4 news. I always think J Snow is a bit fast and loose with the truth and was good to see him put on the spot.
Most people who are up to speed on the issue of election expenses (and there aren't many of them) know that all parties do this. Channel 4 just wanted to make an example of Zac Goldsmith for tribal reasons.
Zac goldsmith absolutely floored J Snow. Good at last to see someone not being intimidated by an interviewer.
Shane Greer / July 19 2010 3:21pm
Hi James,
Perhaps my use of 'every other campaign' was a little too broad! :)
But in my experience this is a trick that is used often. And to be honest, from a political point of view it's entirely understandable. The votes won by council candidates tends to go up when a by-election or general election falls on the same day (due to BE/GE voters voting down ticket), and to the extent that that's true, it's fair to say that the campaign material used by the parliamentary candidate goes some way toward supporting the local candidates. However, that's not an argument I would recommend making on TV!
Jack Frost / July 19 2010 3:23pm
"He should have made his points"...but.. "should not have spent any more than a minute doing this".
I expect Goldsmith agrees with you. However, he was prevented from doing just that by Snow and it was the ensuing argument that delayed matters.
Personally, I thought Snow came out of it worse.
FX Man / July 19 2010 3:28pm
Mr Goldsmith may well have spent less time on C4's behaviour as you suggest but Snow would not let him make his points, kept interrupting and talking over him.
Snow was not properly briefed and dug himself as big a hole as Goldsmith. How much does C4 pay him for such mindless incompetence?
Jacketgate, eh? Can't wait for the outcome... [snooze]
Anon / July 19 2010 3:43pm
What about his body language? He waved his hands around too much and what's with the hands together in prayer bit? Non authoritative, an anxious pleading gesture. Mind you, Snow had to take a drink obviosly rattled.
james lawrence / July 19 2010 4:56pm
Must admit I took the opposite few. I thought Zac truly destabilised Snow during the interview.
That said not too sure anyone outside the Westminster village would be that interested.
Ian_R47 / July 19 2010 6:29pm
I had not bothered with this until I saw it here - but I have to say I thought Jon Snow was a disgrace. Talk about making the facts fit the story you want to tell!
Yes Goldsmith could have presented it better, but I thought he got his point across as well as he was ever going to be allowed to by the bullying Snow.
Jon Snow - you looked desperate and you have damaged your integrity.
Tapestry / July 19 2010 6:59pm
BUllshit. Zac did a good job of reflecting back at Snow the rudeness he was projecting, but doing it politely and intelligently.
Zac has risen in everyone's estimation apart from that of media professionals who don't want their sandcastles knocked down.
Chris Paul / July 19 2010 7:10pm
Other PPCs who use name and photo posters or indeed just name and pass these off as generic are ALL wrong, they don't make Zac right. Though I don't think there are many as even try.
He could claim they are fit for two or more elections involving himself - if he can count them all back in - but that would not give quite the scope he needed.
What on earth was the basis of the arithmetic on either the posters or the jackets? Have 200 jackets been collected in and the stickers removed from them ready for the next campaign? If yes, let's see them then.Ditto posters.
Did he apply any arithmetic like this to leaflets too and if so did they feature all the LG candidates pro rata?
What on earth was the basis of the 62% unused leaflets claim - not very green is it?! and hardly credible - how did the agent and candidate predict they could spend 250%+ on this as more than half would not be used.
Were there really leaflets in this campaign that were superceded for content? Didn't see any Tory leaflets round here that couldn't have been printed months before the election. Lots of ours were like that and that's how they were cheap. Not rush jobs which *always* command a premium.
And what about other issues that C4 won't have even found. Let's say leaflets, letters and stationery that are entirely missed, 'phone costs, paid delivery companies, correct postage, paid party workers, timber and nails and so on and so forth.
Zac was awful in this interview, yes.
Snow sometimes struggles and he wasn't at his tip top best, yes. But he was faced with lunacy to be fair.
Many PPCs - often 2 or 3 of the candidates in a constituency - will sail close to the wind or indeed significantly overspend, yes.
But Zac appears to be out in la la land and could well be found to be in a serious and exceptional breach of the rules on this one.
He will not be able to show all that many MPs were elected on this scale of gaming the rules.
Lots of reform of this regime is needed. Even a simple requirement to attach a sample of every piece of print to the relevant receipted invoice would be a big step forward.
The whole thing is a cheat's charter and it is desperately unfair on those who actually do it right, or thereabouts, that some candidates take the Mick.
ed / July 19 2010 7:54pm
Someone who has never been in the cauldron to the extent that Zac was would have to be wary criticising him. I thought he was actually quite brilliant. I thought- court of law wise- he was watertight. Should he have been nicer to Snow? No, I think that would be feeding a notorious lefty troll by massaging his grotesque ego. Zac showed guts, cool logic and - best of all- dramatic timing. In fact it was great telly and if that is repeated the journos will start to behave and the standard of tv will improve.
philip walling / July 19 2010 8:14pm
Your criticism of Goldsmith is unfair. He tried to make his point early on but Snow wouldn't let him speak; he interrupted constantly.
It's unbelievably hard to get the better of a television interviewer on his own ground. I would have thought Goldsmith should have seized the initiative and asked Snow if he really wanted to hear his answers or was he there just to shout him down.
I would also have been tempted to stop talking if Snow wouldn't shut up during my answer and say to the camera 'he clearly doesn't want to hear the truth'.
It's important to remember the viewers are your audience and try to get them on your side against the interviewer. Goldsmith deferred too much to Snow and forgot who he was really talking to.
Lucky Jim / July 19 2010 8:25pm
Sometimes you can look good simply by making the interviewer look like a d**k.
Goldsmith made Jon Snow look like a d**k and just about managed to get his points across, despite constant badgering and interrupting from Snow. For me the very fact he wasn't polished, argued as himself, rather than a party hack in a suit, was a positive not a negative.
I don't like politicians, I live in Richmond Park and voted for Susan Kramer, and I disagree with most of Goldsmith's political views. Yet by the end of the interview he had my full sympathy. So in my experience, he gave an excellent lesson in "TV technique".
oliver king / July 19 2010 8:30pm
'assuming he's right' about c4n's failure to have a live interview with him on Thursday. Thats the problem...its a big assumption. His office asked for an interview with our political correspondent cathy newman at 1730.. Anthony Barnett replied that wasnt acceptable - especially as she knew nothing of the allegations. C4 asked him again at 1800 for a live interview and was told by someone working for him that he was too far away. The next thing we knew is he was live on sky news x millbank. He choose to spend 6 minutes of the interview on this diversion - rather than answer the questions of substance.
Oliver King
programme editor
channel 4 news
paul isaacs / July 19 2010 9:55pm
Don't worry about Zac. Peter Ward is still top dog at the BDA. After all we do live in a meritocracy.
adrian drummond / July 19 2010 10:20pm
To: Oliver King
Your programme - and in particular, John Snow - would have had more credibility if you had not specifically targeted Zac Goldsmith. You know - or you ought to know - that almost all MPs try to get around the limits on their election expenses. In short, you should have looked at a spectrum of MPs from all parties and not just Goldsmith (who I suspect is not someone that J Snow cares too much for).
Re your listing of what Ch4 said with respect to a live interview...sorry but i believe Z Goldsmith's account of who said what.
1971Thistle / July 20 2010 8:02am
Two bald men fighting over a comb...
Neither emerged with much dignity, and the sums involved, in reality, made it look like a bit of a C4 News vendetta (thus speaks a working class Scot who would never vote for Goldsmith in a lifetime, even if I lived and votes in UK)
Tweety pie / July 20 2010 10:06am
Jon Snow has just disgraced himself both by his attitude and the quality of his journalism.
Zac was 100% truthful and Snow's questions reveal he doesn't know much about how political campaigning really is done.
Well done Zac, and yes, it is time for new journalism. I'm fed up of what they pretend to call journalism at the moment. The quality sucks.
gil / July 20 2010 1:20pm
I'm a Tory voter and from where I'm sat the evidence in this case make Goldsmith look very crooked. And the public will look at it and think it stinks too, even if it is within the rules. If it looks like crookery, if it sounds like crookery, if it smells like crookery...
He did not do himself any favours by getting angry about some potential libel either. Indeed this just made him look like the litigious type, which is not a pretty look. Snow did seem rattled but rather, I suspect, because he was being bellowed at on TV.
David B. Wildgoose / July 20 2010 11:07pm
Well I'm NOT a Tory (and in fact was a candidate for the English Democrats Party) and I thought that Snow was a complete disgrace and that Zac Goldsmith was excellent and should be congratulated for standing his ground and demanding an apology for the lies broadcast about him the previous night.
Duncan / July 21 2010 8:05am
Weak brain, weak points, weak performance.
There'll be more of these to come from him.
A true Tory Prescott.
Charlie Burgess / July 22 2010 4:21pm
Goldsmith won